Questions about the nature of our consciousness have fascinated humans since time immemorial. Sadhguru and Harvard cognitive scientist, Prof. Steven Pinker, explore this mind-boggling topic in a riveting conversation. While Sadhguru provides ancient wisdom and a spiritual insight on consciousness, Prof. Steven Pinker represents scientific understanding and perspective. He defines consciousness as our waking awareness and argues that it is not a miracle. Sadhguru responds with a contrasting and nuanced explanation that draws from his living experience. Here are some excerpts from their discussion: 

Sadhguru: “Same things can be looked at from many different directions. First of all, what is a miracle? If you put filth in the soil it becomes a miracle. If you put a piece of bread into this, this becomes a complex human body. This is a miracle. Of course, the word miracle has been taken to another place by religious groups and stuff but essentially in human experience a miracle means, you saw yesterday you planted a seed and today it’s become a beautiful flower. Of course, there is somebody there who can explain exactly how filth became a flower but it’s not easily available to human logic so we say this is miraculous. Calling something miraculous does not mean it is not available to any reason; calling something miraculous essentially means we appreciate the magic of life.”

“About consciousness, probably the way I’m looking at it is very different. If we’re talking about a human being, being conscious right now, in that sense, yes, you’re conscious but ‘consciousness’ doesn’t really represent that. Let’s use different words so that there is a distinction. Right now let’s say you’re ‘aware’. In the yogic sciences, we call this ‘pragna’. If you fall asleep you are not aware. Intellect functions according to what you are identified with. Beyond this, there is an intelligence that is unsullied by memory; this is what we refer to as ‘Chitta’, and that’s what I would understand as ‘consciousness’. You being aware is different- consciousness is different. That which we are referring to as consciousness is the very basis of creation.”

“The brain that we’re talking about, where was it manufactured? It was manufactured in this body, by this body! Essentially, we don’t look at brain as something different. It is just body with different levels of functionality- significant levels of functionality. I’m not questioning whether the brain is significant in doing all these processes,no question at all about that! But, is it the be-all of everything? No, because there are still so many aspects of life which are unexplained…So, someday when we have the data we will explain, but you can gather data only about physical aspects of life. In the yogic culture, we see that everything was nothing. It was called Shiva, that means it was ‘that which is not’. This went into a ripple because of a certain influence of energy and it gathered memory. Once it gathers memory, it finds an intent and a direction, from this various miraculous levels of multiple millions and millions of forms of creation happened. Even in a single atom over 99% is supposed to be, or 93 or 94% is supposed to be empty! What is this emptiness? This is what we refer to as ‘Consciousness’, which is the basis of everything. You can define it as space, you can call it as nothingness, whatever, but essentially it is ‘that which is not’. It is not physical in nature, but fundamental to all physical creation”.

“We’re in no way referring to such things like ESP or magical ways of knowing things. No, I’m talking about the fundamental existence of who we are. I think in most human beings’ experience unless they’re lost in their logic, if you simply sit here, you know you exist. So, this knowing that I exist is not a derivative of neuronal and electrical activity in the brain alone. Even beyond that, we exist because there are states where all this can come down to almost nothing and still, you exist! Actually, you exist much more! See, one important thing is, science should never conclude what we do not know, cannot exist. That’ll not be a good thing to do.”





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